#::: rationality

[cthulhubert]

A news site called WindowsCentral just posted a headline: "57% of all content on the web is AI-generated."

They're misquoting a Forbes article that said, "57% of all text-based content on the web is AI-generated."

Which itself was also a misquote of a study saying "57% of all text translations on the web are machine generated."

Figured I should give everyone a heads up

for all the "OMG dead Internet theory is real!" posting coming up.

[cpericardium]

[philosophybits]

The habit of logical thinking kills imagination.

Lev Shestov, All Things Are Possible

[thirdity]

Each night when you go to bed you think, ‘At last I found it. I tried out theory after theory until now, finally, I have the right one.’ And then the next morning you wake up and say, ‘There is one fact not explained by that theory. I will have to think up another theory.’ And so you do. By now it is evident to you that you are going to think up an infinite number of theories, limited only by your lifespan, not limited by your creative imagination. Each theory gives rise to a subsequent theory, inevitably.

Philip K. Dick, The Exegesis of Philip K. Dick

[artist-issues]

Yesterday my German coworker yelled at me because she firmly believes no world religion can know anything, for sure, about God, so there’s no way to call anyone “right” or “wrong.”

And it took all my strength not to say, “so you’re saying I’m wrong”

because truth in love, truth in love

But seriously. What actually is the deal with the discourse that goes: “you can’t know anything for sure about God.”

“Wait, yes you can, like I know you well enough to know for sure that you’re from ____ Place—“

“—no no, no, that’s different. This is about God.”

“How’s it different?”

“You can’t say someone’s wrong about God.”

“…Well, can I say anything that’s wrong about you? Like, if I say, ‘_____ Person likes to kick puppies,’ can’t you say I’m wrong about you?”

“Yes but I’m not God.”

“Right, but you’re a real person who exists, so there are some things that I can know for sure about you—“

“THAT’S DIFFERENT”

No it’s not! It’s not ‘different.’ Quit acting like it’s different. Christians don’t believe in a set of ideals or the properties of rocks or some mystical vibe that nobody can be right or wrong about. We believe in a living and existing deity with an unchanging, eternally constant personality, and will, and DESIGN, outside of ourselves. So we can be wrong about Him. You can be wrong about Him. Everyone can be wrong—OR RIGHT—about Him, because He actually exists.

He’s not some imaginary friend who’s open to anybody’s interpretation. You get to claim an independent identity, character traits, and a personal history, but the God of the universe doesn’t? What is happening?

I’ll tell you what’s happening. You’re fine with me believing in an imaginary figment that’s only real to me, but as soon as He starts having an effect on the outer world, as if He actually exists and you have to start making some decisions based on that fact, THEN you’re not fine.

[derseprinceoftbd]

A friendly reminder that the joint Worm Fandom+Rationalism movement has killed over 38,615 people, exactly one of whom was a landlord. This is genuinely the most evil force in the world today. A dangerous cult movement is rapidly gaining control of both American youth culture and the U.S. government.

[katherinakaina]

I also need to add a bit of context to your very short bit about Zizians, @strange-aeons .

TLDR: Ziz left the rationalist community 6 years ago and even at the time she wasn’t liked there, the fact she managed to exploit. Her actions directly contradict both hpmor and what CFAR was doing and teaching. Her other affiliations that are no less relevant include being an anarchist and a vegan. You are not immune to cults just because you are not into any particular weird internet subculture.

Cults form from niche subcultures, that’s true enough. But any subculture can form a cult because any culture, even the mainstream one, contains some ideas that can be twisted to an insane degree. And any ideology, even the most niche and scary one, can be approached casually and sceptically. What is actually needed to create a cult is not a special ideology but a cult leader and vulnerable people to follow them. That is the main uniting quality between all cults. Trying to figure out what’s wrong with a certain music band or a certain fantasy book forum is an exercise in motivated reasoning. You will always end up finding something that's wrong.

The rationalist community was trying to prevent the formation of a cult as best as they could. Partly that’s the reason why people like Ziz and others with bad and unpopular takes were often tolerated longer than necessary. To encourage criticism and prevent getting stuck in a positive feedback loop. Because it’s not a high control group! You cannot be simultaneously mad that people are allowed to talk about wacky ideas on forums and also that the group is supposedly very rigid and controlled. Apparently, they could use some control. Not like it would actually stop an aspiring cult leader from recruiting, they’d just go some other place.

Zizians were not mostly trans by accident (what are the chances?). Ziz was recruiting the most vulnerable people who related to her and were willing to trust her (also because there’s a lot of trans women in the community, like a lot). She used their very real and grounded experience of discrimination to convince them that her not being liked is not due to her takes being bad but because she’s trans.

And she had a lot of takes, some of them not being popular enough you actually complained about. You criticised LessWrong for being too pro-capitalist for your taste and then started talking about the Really Bad rationalists and THEY ARE LEFTISTS killing landlords and cops.

Now if we are talking about ideologies that devalue human life, how about some that require actual Class War (guess what people do in wars) or violent mass uprisings? Or some that require assassinations of certain select individuals? How come you hear that there are people on forums discussing the ethics of murdering those directly responsible for destroying our planet and you, as a leftist, do not immediately recognize yourself in it? Nothing discussed on LessWrong is more violent than a communist revolution or even the killing of Brian Thompson.

Why being into rationality at some point and reading hpmor is the only thing you told about Ziz? I think I know why. All the right wingers really leaned into the whole ‘trans vegan cult’ thing. That is not a good look for our side, is it? How amazing would it be to find a scapegoat. Who cares about those AI safety freaks anyway? They are all cishet men anyway! All cishet men who somehow have an offshoot of violent vegan queers, that certainly adds up.

Ziz being a radical vegan* (another niche subculture) corresponds to her actions way better than anything that's discussed on LessWrong or happened in hpmor. In fact, there’s an exact scene you probably skipped. Harry is on a very important and dangerous mission with Quirrell and at some point he is told to hide while Quirrell duels a cop guard at magical Guantanamo Bay – a total pig and an absolute scum who Ziz would kill without a second thought. Harry does share her sentiment, he fucking hates Azkaban. But when Quirrell tries to kill the evil torture cop Harry instinctively protects him jeopardizing the entire mission. And it’s not a random scene. It starts the entire disillusionment spiral where Harry realizes his beloved groomer professor might be a bad guy. Murder of a bystander whose only crime is being a product of his society is not something Harry can tolerate. He does end up decapitating a bunch of actual death eaters in the very end (the bit you probably did read) to save his own life and defeat Voldemort and even then he regrets it and apologizes for it (despite it being the right thing to do and not even comparable to a random cop). There’s an entire scene where Harry bonds with Draco over their mother’s deaths where he expresses that every death is a tragedy, even deaths of very bad people (like Voldemort).

Not to mention the entire immortalism theme (did you skip the entire third book?). One cannot read hpmor and walk away thinking human life is worthless or only super geniuses deserve to live. Timeless decision theory leading to murdering people is not in there**, nothing in the fic even suggests such a conclusion. More about how you got most things wrong about hpmor here.

Let’s face it, those were a bunch of sleep deprived vulnerable people high on all sorts of radical ideas, who were kicked out of every decent movement and that’s why they slipped into a cult.

Any subculture can become a cult. If you ever read a boring preachy fanfic or ever went to a physical meeting with internet weirdos. If you ever felt rejected by mainstream society and went looking for ‘like-minded people’, for a ‘found family’, for a ‘place where you belong’. You are not safe. Touching grass from time to time is not enough. You have to never leave the pastures to be highly immune to cults. And that ain’t you, my friend. That’s none of us.

Previous post about rationalist community.

* Ever heard ‘veganism is the moral baseline’ (sometimes minimum or imperative)? That’s not a slander, it’s a commonplace argument and an actual slogan.

** The only use of timeless decision theory in hpmor is about being able to reliably cooperate with other well meaning people, not about killing anyone.

[katharsisboy101]

Winter Phos, caught between Reason and Emotion.

Winter Phos serves as the middle ground between the emotional and reckless OG Phos and the cold and hyperrational Moon Phos, jumping between kindness and utilitarianism and failing miserably at both, because he's approaching it from a place of overcompensation.

Self-Imposed Burdens

I’d say that the word that defines Winter Phos best is “burdens”, because that’s how he acts in regards to every single one of his decisions from now on. He just keeps piling them on—the burden to redeem himself because of what happened to Antarc, the burden to find out Sensei’s secrets in order to protect the gems, the burden to not be responsible for anyone’s (Ghost) disappearance anymore…

Despite his best intentions, all these endeavors end up in failure, all because Phos keeps trying to compensate for his mistakes by immediately going to extremes instead of actually achieving any semblance of balance in regards to his reasoning and his emotions, which as you will see later on, are always at constant odds with each other.

Because the things Phos wants to do aren’t things he *truly* wants to do or feels as much as it’s what, logically, should be done—AKA, burdens.

Even if he was happier idling away before, now he must fight alongside everyone else even if it’s meaningless.

Even if he loves Sensei deeply, he must discover his secret for the sake of the gems.

Even if it’s not his fault and he’s only a small piece of a whole array of events and circumstances outside of his control, he takes responsibility all by himself, claiming that it’s only his fault when things go wrong—that all his thoughts lead to are mistakes.

Winter Phos abandons OG Phos’ pettiness and laziness, which from one perspective are seemingly bad—but from another it allowed him to at least appreciate things for what they were, while now he keeps favoring soulless tasks such as staying awake in winter.

In this sense, I’d say that the winter symbolizes not only growing up, but also duty—doing the things you don’t want to because it’s your task. That’s the lesson Antarc teaches Phos through his philosophy:

Overextend yourself. Even that which you can’t do, do, no matter how much you break. 

Once Antarc dies, Phos takes after him in his self-demand, once more casting away what actually makes him special in favor of an imitation that ignores his actual strong points. In this sense, we see less and less of the empathetic and naive Phos that could reach out to Cinnabar (which is also signified by the latter’s more sparse appearances in this part of the manga), replaced by Winter Phos, who is colder, more reserved, and always tries to be up to the task— inspired by Antarc’s diligence, but even more importantly, by his courage.

Courage

This word is repeated constantly throughout this part of the manga, in reference to Antarc every single time. 

But why? What is courage?

Usually, it means to act despite being afraid, right? Well, I’d say Houseki no Kuni more or less agrees with that definition, with the twist that it’s constantly used in contexts of Phos’ burden—Phos is pushed to act by the illusion of Antarc (his guilt), pushed to stray away from the things that he actually finds meaning in or that he actually cares about (Cinnabar), in favor of the lonely duty to find out the truth, as unfulfilling and harmful as that task may be to him. 

Phos is doing something SO uncharacteristic of him, that it eats him away from the inside— it makes him forget what he actually desired (to be understood and appreciated) by focusing on the future and the problems it may hold instead, looking for acceptance by being useful and yet also realizing that everyone’s admiration isn’t worth much when he can’t even accept himself. 

In this sense, Winter Phos is the ultimate soulless employee—the slave to a self-imposed burden so typical of the current capitalist society, the man who forgets what he wanted in the beginning favoring complicated matters that place him further and further away from his happiness.

Phos following Antarc’s philosophy seemingly makes him stronger and more capable, but it also discards his individuality. He is simultaneously and paradoxically the perfect dehumanized soldier for Kongo, while also the only one with enough humanity to question the status quo and deviate from the rest. It’s a paradox, a constant battle between reason and duty vs emotion and empathy.

And this is Winter Phos’ tragedy.

Because the winter symbolizes maturity, growing up, losing your childlike innocence and starting to think and reason, and the trap that comes with it.

Reason vs Emotion

We are introduced to Winter Phos with this scene: 

All Phos needed to save Antarc was to use his head more—to act not out of instinct but using his abilities logically in order to reach the right outcome. This scene tells the reader that reason, rather than raw feeling, is fundamental in actually changing things meaningfully, while at the same time questioning the need to take on that burden to begin with—after all, doesn’t he look miserable?

Because of his trauma and the pain of being out of control due to not being strong or smart enough when Antarc was taken away, Winter Phos starts to process things much more rationally than OG Phos, while still having so much empathy that he can’t handle the way his decisions seem to affect others—he grew up, in the sense that now he can’t afford to not make rational decisions anymore, and that weighs heavily on his shoulders.

It’s a constant clash between knowing what “has to be done”, or rather, what Antarc would have done vs how much acting that way actually hurts Phos because of his sensibility. 

He has a kind heart underneath the cold exterior that pushes him to act for the sake of others, while, paradoxically, his methodical actions to save them also hurt them the most—because instead of acting with discretion, Phos overcompensates by acting uncharacteristically rational, to the point of abandoning his empathy and paying the consequences because of it.

His true wishes don’t align anymore with what Phos has actually been doing—he’s kind inside, and yet he was cruel enough to abandon Ghost just to confirm his suspicions regarding Sensei. 

It really is the opposite from what he wished to achieve.

I’d argue this tragic chain of events occurs because Phos’ biggest issue is that he looks at his rationality and his emotions as if they were in conflict with each other, which leads him to be reckless when he feels as if he’s overcompensated more in one area than another. In every version of Phos, he tries to be rational and discreet, but paradoxically, his feelings always get the better of him and he ends up messing everything up. 

Maybe, just maybe, emotions and feelings come together, and it's all about a balance. Phos doesn't need to be less rational or less emotional... he needs to be more rational AND emotional. That is what it means to be composed. 

To have the balance Padparascha is talking about, to be discreet enough to know when the truth (reason) will result in feelings being hurt (emotions) and whether that is worth it or not—to distinguish between the two and use them accordingly, is what Phos doesn't do, because he always overcompensates and goes from one extreme to the other instead of finding balance and discretion.

Whatever the case, due to Winter Phos choosing the facade of cold rationality, he even abandons Cinnabar, the person who before he spent hours thinking about how to help. He doesn’t pay attention to his words carefully anymore—He disregards Cinnabar's wishes, and even when the gem is begging for emotion, all that Phos can offer him is the stressful job of finding out Sensei’s secret, forgetting about the “fun” of it. 

And of course Phos doesn’t remember about the fun part—fun is the last thing in his mind, unlike the original Phos.

Despite Cinnabar’s expectations to partner up, the key that could solve many of these two gems’ self-inflicted problems, what Phos proposes instead is cold, rational utilitarism. If Phos was connected to his emotions, then this wouldn't have happened—if he was connected to what he truly wanted, he could have paired up with Cinnabar, and perhaps, found happiness. 

It’s stupid, but it’s these small, seemingly mundane moments, that held the key that could have changed these two’s fates for the better—together, rather than apart.

The worst part is that Phos is still thinking about Cinnabar even while partnering up with Ghost—he knows what he craves for, what he wants, but he doesn’t stop and think about it enough to actually pursue it due to being too much inside his head, too caught up in what he has to do rather what he wants to do.

In fact, I’d say Phos’ overcompensation through following a self-imposed duty is perfectly reflected in the main source of his internal conflict in these chapters—the suspicion of the parental figure who represents unconditional love, Kongo-sensei.

Suspecting Love

I’d say it’s no coincidence that Winter Phos’ character is so closely related to a breaking point in his relationship with Kongo. It’s this suspicion and paranoia of the person who raised him that pushes him to start dancing into immorality (and let’s not even mention what he does as Moon Phos because of this same suspicion afterwards), which I would say is a fundamental part of growing up.

Because Winter Phos has grown up, now he questions the love that his parental figure gave him, and where every gem chose to trust him, Phos chose to shatter that trust into pieces.

Why? Is Phos just built diffy?

Of course not. It’s because he’s now acting rationally—he’s becoming human, and that means realizing that your parent isn’t the perfect figure you thought it was.

The issue here, though, is that Phos faces extreme pressure after realizing that he’s the only one going so far with his distrust—if even Cinnabar and Antarc, the two most rational and discreet figures in Phos’ eyes, chose to trust him, why the hell shouldn’t he?

There’s this constant sensation that the more Phos pushes to try and find out Sensei’s secret, thus undermining his relationship with him, the more he strays away from what’s actually meaningful—from the affection he truly wants. This idea is repeated in Moon Phos’ arc, too.

Maybe, just maybe, Phos should have gone with his gut, and valued the fact that, no matter how many lies, the fact that Sensei loved him was indisputable.

His suspicion of the one person who loved him unconditionally sends Phos into a downwards spiral he can’t get out of, and doing so alone eats away at him.

However, after finally accepting to share his burden with Ghost, Phos pays the consequences of his overthinking and lack of being in the moment by being cut in half due to not paying attention. 

And because of this blunder, Ghost is taken away.

Repression

Of course, Phos loses his mind after this fact, and he overcompensates once more by shutting off the two main factors that contributed to his mistakes—his rational suspicion of Sensei, and the fact that he opened up to a person.

This is tragic, because while the first factor is clearly showcased to be the right choice, and Phos seems to truly enjoy the company of others for the first time in ages, the fact that he also closed his heart off means that it’s just a facade. He can’t truly experience the love of the people that care for him, and it doesn’t help that he hates himself too much for it to make a difference.

In the fight with the board pieces, Phos is too hard on himself due to his past mistakes, despite the fact that he constantly tries to make the best calls—to call Bortz, to regain the pieces they were losing... He was trying, but instead of acknowledging that, he chooses to attribute everything that goes wrong to his flaws, further isolating himself into his self-hatred and immensely high expectations.

At this point Phos has just changed too much to pretend he hasn’t, and sealing away his problematic thoughts and feelings only causes them to explode once they do come out.

I’d argue this is why he loses his head.

Literally but also metaphorically, he risked everything because his self-imposed burden and guilt were too heavy, and that caused him o try and redeem himself instead of accepting that he can’t save everything and everyone on his own.

But to actually practice what I preach, I’d argue we should look at it in a deeper manner, because I actually think that saying that “Phos should have done x, y, z”, is missing the point and further pushing expectations of perfection onto the gem.

Phos is not Perfect

Yeah, Phos lost his head because he cared too much, but should he have cared less? Should he just let the Lunarians steal away the people he loves and have blind faith in Sensei? The answer isn’t a simple yes or no, because Phos wasn’t in a simple situation. 

Expecting Phos to achieve a perfect balance between his emotions and feelings considering his context and lack of support system is impossible, and not only that, but Phos should be allowed to make mistakes without it being a death sentence.

By asking of Phos to be perfect, to have the existentialist truth that “he already had what he needed” at this point of the story, would be foolish, and it wouldn’t respect the process of Phos’ transformation, that, if you remember correctly, does end up with him in a better place overall.

So maybe Phos shouldn’t be perfect, and that’s okay, too. Maybe, despite all the mistrials and tragedies, the happy accidents should be celebrated, in order to be grateful for both the good and the bad at the end of it all.

[serialport0]

The concept of antisocial behavior is strange. Are you telling me that you're spending the energy you have now in ways that destroy your opportunities to give or receive energy in the future? This seems like a losing strategy.

If you're so smart, why aren't you prosocial? Why haven't you realized that connection is the best part of life? And missing out on it is like missing the whole vibe.

[victoriadallonfan]

I find “rational” Worm fanfics amusing

Because the authors never realize that Worm already has a “rational” character and his name is Accord.

And everyone in setting hates Accord because he’s a smug asshole, and his optimal way of thinking ends with him cut in half by his own actions.

[dambiex]

being in ratblr and wormblr is weird. what's next? frogblr? what would that even be?

[areadersquoteslibrary]

"The lesson of Wuthering Heights, of Greek tragedy and, ultimately, of all religions, is that there is an instinctive tendency towards divine intoxication which the rational world of calculation cannot bear."

— Georges Bataille, Literature and Evil

[philosophybits]

A man is so prone to systems and to abstract conclusions that he is prepared to distort the truth on purpose, prepared to deny the visible and the audible just so he can justify his own logic.

Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Notes from Underground

[thirdity]

“I don’t know,” “I refuse to judge”: as scandalous as an agrammatical sentence: doesn’t belong to the language of the discourse. Variations on the “I don’t know.” The obligation to “be interested” in everything that is imposed on you by the world: prohibition of noninterest, even if provisional.

Roland Barthes, The Neutral

[cpericardium]

My favourite part of the Zizians facts doc is, bar none, the section discussing who gets credit for inventing shifting for rationalists™

girls it's sleeping on your side... you're sleeping on your side. and I invented that